JLU Hackers?

In the meeting of 17th July 2011, the JLU discuss hiding the fact that two members are hackers. One of which a senior scripter on PhantomZone.

[09:14] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): Kal I wanted to talk to you about an idea for an Editorial for KR
[09:17] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): Well as someome from the old-new-school of computer hacking I wanted to share my views (and dismay) at the marriage of the hacker culture with the trolling culture.
[09:18] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): Zen, I think that's something we need to learn more about
[09:18] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): most people I know view the two as inseparable
[09:19] Emiley Tomsen: I'd be in favor of seeing your story, we'd want to go over it before publishing it of course. Would you be talking about your former life as a hacker in the story?
[09:19] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): There has always been a bit of merry-pranksterism in Hacker circles but really the idea of a good haker joke would combine technical acumen with harmlessness. Not so with trolls.
[09:19] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): I agree that the popular definition of the term has changed over time.
[09:19] Kohaku Owatatsumi: Linguistic evolution, again
[09:20] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): Its just this anonymous beast is just a mishmash maybe I am showing my age I dunno
[09:21] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): Zen, I think the trolls have coopted the term hacker. It's a timely issue, one we really should cover. Great idea
[09:21] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): for those that don't know I was heavily involved in the Hacker scene from the late 80s to the late 90s it was one of the reasons I was an immigrant to AMsterdam to hang out with the Dutch Hackers. That was my circle of friends when I lived there.
[09:22] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): That actually has some potential as an article, Zen.
[09:22] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): Ok will wirte up a first draft and have it on your desk inside of three days
[09:23] Emiley Tomsen: My concern would be on the article, do you feel comfortable discussing your past? Since I'm sure some of our regular griefers will try to blast us over it, having a member who turned from the darkside, as it were.
[09:26] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): That's the only aspect of the article that I don't feel completely comfortable about.
[09:26] Jenny Everywhere (siobhan.mccallen): Being a hacker in the 80's isn't an issue. Being part of a griefer group *here in SL* would be. But THAT, no one here has been.
[09:26] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): It could be used as a bludgeon.
[09:26] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): Agreed. we can leave out personal background and just make it am academic article
[09:26] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): Leave personal stuff out of it, so we remain untouched
[09:27] Jenny Everywhere (siobhan.mccallen): Heck, *I* was a hacker in the 70's. I was in high school. Whoopie shite-twang.
[09:27] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): I dunno, Shay, I think his personal perspective is what would make the article worth reading.
[09:28] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): Eh I don;'t know how darkside I was. I had a code. When I stole I copied and left originals intact, I never vandalized when I cracked systems I did not punch MORE holes in the security. That kind of thing
[09:28] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): I suggest we prepare drafts with both formats. We can always edit out personal stuff later on.
[09:28] Emiley Tomsen: I'm not against it, I'm just saying I don't want Zen to disclose anything he's not comfortable with. And that could possibly be used against him or anyone else. Another angle is, it shows someone who used to do some ethically questionable things can go good guy.
[09:29] Jenny Everywhere (siobhan.mccallen): Statute of limitations is past on it in any case.
[09:29] Hal Jordan (greenlantern.excelsior): I think that kind of information could be used against us. "JLU fights griefers but they have hackers in their membership." The Herald would love that.
[09:29] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): And editing for format is drill. If we DO this as an academic artucke, it could be safer and less usable by the oppostion.
[09:29] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): thats what I think. Anything I have done is past statute of limitations.
[09:29] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): Hal's got a hell of a point.
[09:30] Hal Jordan (greenlantern.excelsior): We would never live that down
[09:30] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): I agree with hal, but Zen's idea is still brilliant. We can easilly do without personal stuff, if the risk is deemed too great
[09:30] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): Well I don't see my time as a HAcker as a shameful thing.
[09:30] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): Of course not. You're an honorable man
[09:30] Bobkoe Nirvana: thats the main point
[09:30] Jenny Everywhere (siobhan.mccallen): "The JLU has *reformed* hackers from 30 years ago in their membership." Geez, why not just blame him for Watergate and be done with it?
[09:30] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): Alas, the opposition is prone to distorying truths.
[09:31] Jenny Everywhere (siobhan.mccallen): You're Deep Throat, aren't you, Zen? Admit it!
[09:31] Hal Jordan (greenlantern.excelsior): LOL
[09:31] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell) strangles inher coffee
[09:31] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): However, Zen, it could be easily twisted into something else, and it would paint a great big bull's eye on the Justice League if we were to run an "I was a hacker" story.
[09:31] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): I mean its not something you outgrow its something you refocus. Stallman and Trovalds are Hackers as I am, more so and they are not seen as bad guys.
[09:32] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): Not exactly in the same sense, Zen.
[09:32] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): They were hackers before that meant people who made a hobby of defeating security measures.
[09:33] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): Hell Stallman has a story of him craxking all the passwords at MIT and encouraging people to use the return key as his password,
[09:33] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): Not only the audience, but people who would love nothing more than to take another swipe at us.
[09:33] Emiley Tomsen: I think it would be ok for Zen to write what he wants, and then we can review it and go from there.
[09:33] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): I concur.
[09:33] Bobkoe Nirvana: yes
[09:34] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): I think that regardless of the immediate disposition of the article, it's something that should be written.
[09:35] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): Agreed. We should prepare two drafts: One with personal info, one without
[09:35] Hal Jordan (greenlantern.excelsior): Sounds prudent
[09:35] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): I think the "personal investment" part of the editorial gives it an emotional punch. ANd Like I said it was 20 years ago I was doing illegal stuff not last week. In fact the most current crack was kind of freindly just telling someone the contents of thier inbox a week after they asked if I was really a hacker about 6 or 7 years ago.
[09:35] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): If we decide to do the one without, we can publish the one WITH in BWiki, so it's not lost :)
[09:37] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): My personal perspective would be, given our job and adversaies, we consider erring on the side of caution and going the purely academic route, citing "primary resources"
[09:37] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): anyway I am a professional and have been through editorial many times. Sometimes good sometimes painful.
[09:38] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): Agreed.
[09:38] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): Great works aren't written, Zen.
[09:38] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): They're re-written.
[09:38] Zen-El (zenmondo.wormser): Did I ever mention my first paid writing gig was under the pseudonym Cal L. Kent?
[09:38] Shayera Hol (samantha.lowell): Editors tend to drink blood of writers and sleep in coffins made of their tears.
[09:39] Kal-El (kalel.venkman): Okay - I think we're about done for the morning,